Plastic Podcast Episode 3: What is a Zero Waste City?

Episode Description: This episode of the Plastic Podcast delves into the concept of zero waste cities, exploring how urban areas can drastically reduce their waste footprint. Our host, Clark, engages with Jack McQuibban from Zero Waste Europe to uncover the intricacies of achieving zero waste status, examining the balance between individual actions and systemic changes necessary for this ambitious goal. They discuss the challenges cities face, the importance of local action, and the global impact of zero waste initiatives. By highlighting successful strategies and the potential savings in waste management, the episode paints a hopeful yet realistic picture of the future of waste reduction, advocating for a collaborative approach that involves policymakers, communities, and individuals alike in the quest for a sustainable, waste-free world.

 Episode Guest:  Jack McQuibban

More information about Zero Waste Europe here

More information about the episode and the Plastic Podcast

Follow Pine Forest Media on Instagram @pineforestmedia

Hosted, produced, written, and edited by Clark Marchese 

Cover art and PFM logo by Laurel Wong. 

Theme music by Tadeo Cabellos 

Transcript

[00:00:14.260] - Clark

Hello, and welcome to another episode of Plastic Podcast, the show that tells the story of plastic. How we got here, where we even are, and where to go now. And this week, we are serving policy and local action because we are talking about zero waste cities. So, zero waste, what is it and how do we achieve it? When we talk about plastic problems, we can pretty much divide it into three sections. Production, consumption, and waste. Waste is definitely the one that gets talked about the most. What happens to our toothpaste tube once we're done with it? Now, the concept of zero waste, if perfectly realized, is fairly simple. Basically, it means you live your life in such a way where you don't produce waste that is, nothing that you touch gets sent to a landfill, the ocean, or the incinerator. Everything gets reused. Nothing gets wasted. That is the perfect goal. Now, if you're worried that I'm about to tell you that you need to start taking a glass jam jar to the store and refilling it with shampoo, that's not what we're doing today. There are two problems. The first is that as much as I'd like to stop buying a plastic bottle of shampoo every several weeks, I've never seen a grocery store that would let me refill my jam jar with shampoo even if I brought it with me.

[00:01:35.260] - Clark

I know that there are some shampoo bars wrapped in biodegradable paper that we should buy if we can find them. That's not the point. The problem is that as much as we would like to live a zero waste life, our systems are not set up to make it very possible for any individual. The second problem is that even though this is the case, a lot of discussion around zero waste puts the burden on the individual. Nonetheless, it's presented as a lifestyle that we can all achieve if we're eco conscious enough to make the effort. And I don't think that's fair, because I don't think it's true. Yes, we can all refill our water bottle, perhaps, and say no to straws and really think about whether we need a Stanley cup. But I do think it's our systems that are inherently wasteful. So targeting systems towards zero waste is our topic of the day. And I have a special guest to talk with us about that. His name is Jack McQuibban, and he works for an organization called Zero Waste Europe. This international organization works all across Europe, basically trying to move the entire continent towards zero waste.

[00:02:35.240] - Clark

And Jack is the head of local implementation. Jack also created what is called a zero waste city certificate which is a gold standard of zero waste practices to which all cities should aspire. Jack's job also involves helping cities reach that standard. In our conversation, we talked about what it means to be a zero waste city and how to overcome the challenges in getting there. We talked about the concrete benefits of being a zero waste city, not only for the planet, but for the cities themselves. So I hope you find this as interesting as I do. And let's get started. All right, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for taking the time to come on today. And the first question I have for you is if you could just please introduce yourself and tell us anything we might need to know about Jack McQuibban.

[00:03:26.310] - Jack McQuibban

Yes. Well, thanks so much for having me for the podcast. So, as you said, my name is Jack. I am from the UK, but I live in Brussels now, and I work for the NGO Zero Waste Europe. We work with businesses and cities who want to commit to implement zero waste solutions. And the flagship sort of program work that we do is our zero waste cities work, where municipalities commit to implement, like, a holistic zero waste city model, which means really looking at the issue of municipal waste, yet ultimately create systems that do not generate any waste at all. So big, big challenges for the work coming up, but there's lots of exciting progress happening that gives me a lot of inspiration and hope for the future. So maybe what's important to know from the UK slipped over to Europe before Brexit rules had changed, and I've been enjoying life on this side of the continent ever since.

[00:04:22.830] - Clark

Okay, well, let's start with Zero Waste Europe, then. Can you tell us a little bit more about the organization? What are its main goals?

[00:04:30.410] - Jack McQuibban

Being based in Brussels, we do a lot of EU policy advocacy. So the EU has its main institutions here, and so we therefore try and advocate. We have a big team for improving and making the legislation around waste and the circular economy more ambitious. The second part is we focus on creating movement, building. So, Zero Waste Europe. We have member organizations. So these are other NGOs. We have 35 to 35 organizations in 25 countries. It's with these local partners that my work is predominantly done with. So, for example, we have a member in Slovenia or in Cyprus, Portugal, Spain, Italy. They are the ones who do the day to day support and contact with their municipalities and their businesses. It's our role in Brussels to help build capacity, awareness, and to create the framework and to provide technical assistance where needed on how to improve and how to sort of adopt zero waste strategies. But the core day to day work is done by the local groups, because they know the context, they speak the local language. They are in a far better position than we are from Brussels to really play that role.

[00:05:33.780] - Clark

Okay. I really like that network building aspect and also the emphasis on context being really important. But before we get into the nitty gritty of some specific strategies you might recommend to achieve zero waste, let's talk about that concept. What is zero waste as Zero Waste Europe defines it?

[00:05:52.260] - Jack McQuibban

Yeah, the million dollar question, really. Zero waste is about creating systems and communities that do not generate waste. And the way that it's treated, it's not burned or buried. So ultimately, we're trying to create a world where no one and nothing is disposable. We are combining policies to reduce our resource extraction, manufacturing, and the subsequent emissions and pollution that comes with that. And the zero waste philosophy is about putting communities first, having environmental justice, social inclusion at the heart of our work.

[00:06:29.800] - Clark

It's really refreshing to hear a professional in this field say that, because I think when most of us hear about zero waste, a lot of us assume it's applied to us as individuals. Like, living a zero waste lifestyle is something that we each have to do on our own, which is incredibly difficult, sometimes impossible, due to these systems that you're sort of trying to fix. So I like that the people you're working with and the governments even are sort of taking that on to themselves as a responsibility, rather than shifting it down.

[00:06:58.170] - Jack McQuibban

Exactly. And it's a tricky balance, because I think the exciting thing about zero waste, anyone can make it start making a difference at any time. If you wanted to really have an impact, you could reduce what you consume or consume better in the materials that you choose and how you sort or recycle your waste. There are many, many ways to get involved without any other support necessary required. But ultimately, we think that too much emphasis has been placed on the individual and the systems that we are a part of. Perpetuating a society that is based on a linear economy, therefore produces waste. And so we really want to tackle the systems and get the community wide solutions at the forefront of this change.

[00:07:40.480] - Clark

Yeah, I totally agree. So if we're going to start to tackle these systems, where do we even begin? Let's say a municipality. What sorts of waste do you focus on? What sorts of waste are we even producing the most of?

[00:07:53.200] - Jack McQuibban

Very good question. At Zero Waste Europe, we focus predominantly, if not only on the municipal solid waste. So this is the waste generated by households and household like businesses. So offices, canteens, that kind of thing. It's not the largest category of waste that is very often construction, demolition waste. But construction waste can often be quite easily recycled. And municipal waste we target, because you can have a much longer impact if you target behavioral change and to get households and businesses operating in a well functioning system, that's when you can really start to have more of a positive long term impact. So that's why we focus on municipal waste.

[00:08:33.170] - Clark

Okay, so we are going to do a little breakdown on garbage. So all the raccoons out there listening, you are really going to love this. So, municipal solid waste, MSW, as it is sometimes referred to, is one of four commonly defined categories of solid waste. This is the type of waste that the average human person produces in their home or their office. Jack is right that it is significantly smaller than the other categories, like construction waste, industrial waste, hazardous waste. But MSW is our focus for today, and I wanted to understand what makes up that category. I found that the largest two categories making up MSW are paper and paperboard and food, with around 23 and 20% respectively. So we're talking about cardboard boxes from Amazon and that lettuce that goes bad in the back of your fridge while you order Uber eats again for the fourth night in a row. Together, these two categories make up just under 50% of MSW. That's almost half which. This is both a shame and an opportunity for optimism, because they are perhaps the most easily recyclable materials on the list. Plastic makes up around 12% to 13% of municipal solid waste, depending on the study you look at.

[00:09:42.940] - Clark

I will also mention that rubber, leather, and textiles get grouped into their own category together, and they make up around 9%. Now, we've talked a little bit about, and we will continue to talk about how rubber and textiles contribute a lot to microplastics and nanoplastics, so we can't disregard them altogether. The other categories are metals, glass, wood, and, surprisingly, yard trimmings, which make up 12% of municipal solid waste. So that's almost as much as plastic. Now, I'm curious. We know that some plastics cannot be recycled. But if you look at all that goes into municipal solid waste, paper and food at the top, and also metal, glass, and other organic material, most of these things can be recycled. I know your job is focused on creating systems that don't produce waste in the first place, but do you also focus any resources on improving recycling systems?

[00:10:29.870] - Jack McQuibban

How do I phrase this right? There is an ongoing challenge in our work in terms of when we speak with municipalities. They have many challenges on their plates and therefore, having ambitious action to generate a reuse system might not be top of their priority list, but what is more of a low hanging fruit is better sorting for recycling. It's often the entry point to a zero waste city sort of strategy discussion. You can have the biggest impact in reducing waste overnight via such methods. So we do not want to neglect that at all. But we also know that there are huge challenges with recycling, particularly plastics recycling. So we don't want to focus all of our efforts and invest millions in a sort of european wide recycling system if we know that this is just going to be problematic. It's sort of downcycling at best for plastics. So therefore you need to focus on reuse, on refill, on other sort of methods. So, yeah, it's always that balance about where do you target first, how do you get people to increase their ambition whilst also rewarding some positive action at the same time?

[00:11:40.810] - Clark

That makes sense. And I guess there are a lot of different targets that cities will need to hit. But speaking of targets, I want to talk about this zero waste cities certificate. Can you tell us a little bit about that? What is it? When did it start? What do you need to do to get one? Who has gotten one?

[00:11:57.290] - Jack McQuibban

Yeah, so it's a relatively new initiative. We started in March 2021. And in the past we had a zero waste cities program that was based on municipalities writing a letter saying, yes, they commit to being a zero waste city, but there was no strong enforcement and there was no recognition, really, of what a good practice is and what a minimum level performance. So this is why we criticized certification, for a couple of reasons. We wanted to really have something that protected what we saw as the gold standard, what it was, what it is to be zero waste. In terms of measuring performance, we have a set of criteria -  what every municipality or city who wants to be zero waste should be doing. And then there are criteria that scores points depending on the level of performance, that will define the level of certification. You get between one star being the minimum and five star being the very best. And in the almost three years since we've created it, we've got now 160 waste certified cities in Europe and 25 what we call zero waste candidate cities. So, important distinction here. Zero waste candidate cities are those who've committed that they want to be certified, but there's a three year gap between when they can sort of start implementing these policies before they have to undergo their first audit to become certified.

[00:13:10.040] - Jack McQuibban

We in the past have worked with 420 municipalities who've used the previous system that I mentioned. So now we're sort of transitioning over to getting more cities from the past to the new system.

[00:13:24.070] - Clark

Okay, I definitely want to circle back to talk about this five star system, but before we do that, can you tell us a bit about the type of city that takes part in this program? I grew up in a town, Dalton Gardens, Idaho, has roughly 3000 people. And then I moved to Paris, which has a lot more than that. So Paris or even Brussels, where you are, would probably have a lot of different types of challenges than Dalton Gardens, Idaho. So what is the average size of these cities, for example, and where are they? Are they distributed evenly across the European continent?

[00:13:59.410] - Jack McQuibban

Yeah, I mean, you make a very good point in the data that we see, it is trickier for bigger cities to implement the same level of waste reduction, waste prevention as smaller municipalities. Numerous reasons, different factors at play here. But the predominant ones are bigger cities have more densely populated areas, which provides a bit more challenging, less space for bins. If you live in a multi apartment building, it's harder to sort of have personalized systems to record and offer economic incentives for those who generate less waste. Also, bigger cities tend to have more businesses, more restaurants, generating more waste because they have more visitors and more tourists. So all of these factors mean that there's, in general, a higher level of waste being produced. But the average zeroway city across all of the ones that we work with, I think the size wise is about 42, 41,000 people. So it's pretty well, yeah, it could be small to medium sized.

[00:14:59.990] - Clark

Okay. So the tourism thing got me interested. I like to take a trip as much as the next girl, but it is very wasteful. I looked it up and apparently tourism is responsible for between four and 8% of global municipal solid waste according to the United Nations Environmental Program. And I don't have figures on this, but we don't typically do as much grocery shopping or even cooking on vacation as we do when we're at home. And we also don't typically tend to bring our yard trimmings with us. So I would venture to guess that the municipal solid waste from tourists has a higher percentage of plastic than regular municipal solid waste. Just a guess.

[00:15:39.810] - Jack McQuibban

The vast majority of zero cities in Europe, just over 300 are in Italy. Funnily enough, in the one country, whereas mentioned it started in 2007. And a couple of factors to really describe this, why it's been so successful is an effect. I don't know. The jealous neighbor is what we call it, but it's basically if it works in one region, in one municipality, we try to create a front runner, a pioneer, to showcase how it's done. And then others in the region start to look and say, oh, well, if it works for them, if it's saving them costs, if it's reducing the amount of waste they're generating, then maybe it can work for us. And they start to sort of start applying it themselves. And that's how you get this multiplier momentum. Building the system in Italy, many places has been less industrialized than places where we don't have zero waste. Cities like Sweden, Denmark, the UK, the Netherlands, who have long had relationships with more advanced technologies, such as seen as incineration, waste energy incineration, which is a key blocker via zero waste city work to reduce your usage and dependence on incineration or on any kind of disposal capacity.

[00:16:44.190] - Jack McQuibban

But in Italy, they didn't have that dependence. They didn't have these big plants, so they could be much more flexible. So, for example, these big waste incinerators will often have contracts of 10, 20, 30 years. Municipalities sometimes have to pay a yearly fee no matter how much waste they send. So therefore, there's no real incentive to reduce the waste that a city is generating if they have these kind of contracts. So most in Italy, but then we have scores of dozens in Spain, a dozen in Slovenia. About 15 now is a real frontrunner in the EU as well, in Croatia, Romania, and then we have a few scattered around in Cyprus, in Latvia, Portugal, Belgium, Bulgaria and Germany most recently. There are a lot of interest there. So now we have zero cities in 15 different countries, but the predominant ones are based in Italy.

[00:17:38.080] - Clark

Historically, I like this idea of the jealous neighbor. It's like siblings. Hey, you have five stars. I want five stars. But speaking of, can you tell us what it takes to get a five star rating? What does that checklist look like?

[00:17:52.180] - Jack McQuibban

Yes, the five star. So at your core, you have a door to door separate collection system that offers households and businesses the chance to separate their waste paper, cardboard, biowaste, or organics being the absolute key. So if you have your organics separately collected twice a week, for example, it means that other bins don't have the smelly stuff that ferments, so you can optimize your collection rounds. So that's at the core. And then moving up, really. Municipalities who are five star introduce economic incentives. So in Europe, we call these pay as you throw systems, whereby households and businesses are able to see how much they're generating. And the waste fee per year is based on, if you look at it, 100% for a typical waste fee, 60 or 70% will be fixed, covering the average cost of the system, and then there will be 30% to 40%, which is variable. So if you generate the least amount of waste, you would pay the least in your waste fee. Those who generate the most would pay the most. So that sort of economic incentive embedded in the system is key. And then sort of sticking at this level, five star municipalities conduct residual waste assessments.

[00:19:03.480] - Jack McQuibban

So every year, every three years, you look at what is not being recycled. Still, this is super important to get data to inform policy making. And then the five star cities don't just settle there. They go beyond to look at reducing total waste generation. So the amount of what's recycled and also non recycled. So introducing initiatives such as repair cafes for bikes, electronics, having big recycling centers that are accessible and reuse centers where people can bring various different items from electronics to bulky furniture, tires, mattresses, all these different challenging waste items. And you prioritize, reuse and repairing these items, remanufacturing, redesigning them, so that recycling is the last resort, basically. And then the final cherry on top of a five star, zero city is that you're communicating with your citizens, you're sharing data, you're giving people the chance to participate in the system through events, through workshops. And then the cherry on top of the cherry would be that the five star cities are communicating about this as well, in a wider fashion, to say, hey, here are our results. Look at what can be done. We are happy to support others, but we also know we can improve.

[00:20:18.550] - Clark

I like that idea that the work isn't finished once you've reached the five stars. I think these cities and systems can always be improving. But beyond that, I do see oftentimes that people feel like their work has been done with waste management after one specific symbolic benchmark has been reached or one behavior has been changed.

[00:20:36.170] - Jack McQuibban

There's a key but cheesy philosophy that sits at the heart of our work, which is that you're always happy but never satisfied. So even if you're recycling 95%, there's still a lot that can be done to improve. So that's really at the core. You could be one of the best frontrunners in Europe, but there's still improvements to be made.

[00:20:56.150] - Clark

Let's talk about impact. So, obviously, less waste is less waste and less waste is better for the environment. But we're all a little obsessed with data these days. So are there any quantifiable differences in the way that zero waste cities are impacting the environment?

[00:21:11.940] - Jack McQuibban

Yeah. So the data is a couple of years old now, but still it's only from 2021. We did an analysis of our zero waste cities. So the 460 od at the time, and they showed two key metrics that we looked at. So what we call separate collection rates. Out of the 100% of recycled and non recyclable waste that households are generating, what percentage of that is being put aside separately for recycling? And obviously you want to get that as close to 100 as possible, because it means that what you're sending for landfill incineration is minimized. And in our zero waste cities, the average percentage was 67% as well. So it's a good average across the board. And then importantly, on the total municipal solid waste generated, Alzheira cities in 2020, compared to the EU average, generated 140 kg less per person per year or total waste. So a huge exciting figure to showcase the impact.

[00:22:08.910] - Clark

Okay, so 140 kg times, let's say 40,000 people on average, per city times 460 cities times. However many years this has been going on, that's quite a lot. So congratulations and thank you for your work. I'm curious. The data is clearly showing a positive impact for the environment, which philosophically is very important. But I'm also wondering, you mentioned that there are some financial incentives to reducing waste. Do we find that it also just costs less to produce less waste? Is it simply cheaper to be a zero waste city?

[00:22:42.910] - Jack McQuibban

Yeah, exactly. So most contexts it is cheaper because simply, if you have less waste to manage, you have less litter to pick up. In Europe, you have what's called a gate fee, quite informally. So when you send your waste for landfill incineration, what is a missed policy? Paying per ton. Ultimately, if you have less of that non recycled waste, you are saving money there. As I mentioned before, you can save money on having more optimized collection routes. If you are able to separate the organics, well, you can sell on the compost that is produced, or you can create biogas. So energy from anaerobic digestion. Again, if you've got the bio waste right, it means the recyclables that you have should be of a higher value. There's less food contamination, so you should be able to increase the revenue that you receive from selling these onto the secondary material markets. So yes, in most cases it is cheaper to be zero waste. Of course, there are some upfront infrastructure costs that many municipalities might have to do.

[00:23:42.010] - Clark

Okay, so it seems like there's a lot of opportunities for financial gain if you're able to sort of foot that initial bill. So we have incentive on one hand, but there's also pressure. We mentioned briefly that context is really important when it comes to these things. And zero waste. Europe is operating in the European context. I'm wondering, is there a lot of pressure, top down from the European level onto individual countries or municipalities to work towards these goals? Or does it come from the bottom up or a bit of both?

[00:24:10.150] - Jack McQuibban

It's a bit of both, to be honest. EU in some regards, particularly recycling and other aspects, has a good legislative framework. In theory, what's written on paper, in text, in Brussels is great in many regards. Not perfect, but it provides a solid foundation. The issue is that in many cases, the enforcement and the compliance is quite weak. So it is a strong argument to make that Brussels is forcing you to. For example, from January this year, you had to separate biowaste in every EU member country. But to really comply with this, you need the bottom up approach, you need citizens, you need groups to hold municipalities to account, because there are many ways, there are loopholes around how you comply. You can comply by doing the bare minimum. For example, for biowaste, you could put a large, big bin on the street, open to anyone who wants to use it. It's not recorded or not sort of monitored, and that will be a tick box exercise, you complying with the EU law and therefore no problem, you wash your hands of it. But that's going to deliver you really poor results. It's not going to be effective in any means.

[00:25:15.050] - Jack McQuibban

So it is about how do you, if not tweak the legislation to work on improvements, at least have a bottom up approach to support municipalities, to go above and beyond what is written in EU text. So it is a bit of both. Both is good.

[00:25:29.890] - Clark

In fact, it might even be a sign of a well functioning democratic system. But you mentioned that on paper, the legislation is quite good at the european level. I will ask, is there any piece of legislation right now that does not exist that you think, oh my goodness, we needed this implemented yesterday.

[00:25:46.770] - Jack McQuibban

Where do we start? There is a lot to improved about eco design, forcing what is placed on the market by producers to be reusable, recyclable. There's very few pieces of legislation here that tackle chemicals in plastics or chemicals in recyclable content as well. It's quite a weak spot for the EU. So there are two big things. And then in the EU at the moment, at the local level, this interface, some of the challenges that we have to an EU to local level is what we call extended producer responsibility. The idea that producers should pay for what they put on the market that is not recyclable or reusable. The problem is that the fees are not designed in the way to encourage greater reuse or greater repair as well. And often, therefore, municipalities, you're getting this kind of lock in effect, where they get funding from producers for the waste that they collect for recycling. So therefore it becomes embedded in the business model, the incomes that they get. It becomes a requirement for the public budget. And therefore you end up in the system where the producers keep on producing, putting this stuff on the market, the municipalities get it. And then we know that the plastics in particular, the reality of what is truly recycled is far lower.

[00:27:05.580] - Clark

Okay, policymakers, did you hear that? Get to work. Now, a large focus of your work is engaging with local communities. Do you have any reflections on the importance of local action to solve these larger, even global problems?

[00:27:21.330] - Jack McQuibban

For me, it's everything in this time of sort of disconnect in society or feel like taking action at the local level when the problems can often seem huge. Climate change is a ginormous, complex issue, but if we can bring it down to the local level and if you can engage with other people in your community to help improve your life, the life of others, the life of the nature around you, in your immediate sphere of control, that is a hugely positive action. I think if we can build more of that, then that would have a positive impact on the wider world. Yeah, there are social benefits to this. It brings people together around. Nice shared goal. There's no better advocate for the community than the people who live there and they know it best.

[00:28:05.870] - Clark

Yeah, I think that's important to remember. It can be easy to get intimidated or overwhelmed. I mean, you could google the picture of one of the ocean garbage patches right now and want to throw up and give up, but that doesn't get us anywhere. So in an effort to stay hopeful, we have had actually kind of a lot of good news coming through this interview, but that's not always the case on the show. So I do like to ask all of our guests if there's one piece of recent good news that's come out in your work that you can share with us.

[00:28:32.560] - Jack McQuibban

Yes, this is a good question, a positive piece of news, I would say. The EU very recently passed, agreed on a law to challenge the misinformation that consumers get on branding. So about this is green, this is an ecolabel, this is a biolabel. Sounds great, but it's very confusing. So just last week, the institutions of the EU came together and agreed on what it truly is. And they would punish companies that don't provide this clarity and this information to not mislead.

[00:29:04.930] - Clark

Okay, that is good news. I, like many people listening to this, do not want to be misled. So, the United States, I hope you are taking notes. The last question is, is there anything that we did not discuss today that you think we absolutely should talk about when we're discussing the topic of zero waste and zero waste cities?

[00:29:23.150] - Jack McQuibban

Yes. How much time do you have? But also on a positive note, like I said, we can all have a change. And there are many people in this world who are having a change. There are zero waste cities in Asia, in Africa, and there are movements in the US and Canada, too, as well as Latin America. So keep the faith. If you want to have an improvement, there is a whole huge network of people around you who are happy to support.

[00:29:49.750] - Clark

All right, well, thank you so much, Jack. I really appreciate your time. I learned a lot from this conversation, and I'm glad that I got to sort of throw in an uplifting episode in the mix. So thank you for your work.

[00:30:02.760] - Jack McQuibban

My pleasure. Thank you, Clark. Have a good day.

[00:30:11.490] - Clark

I'm really glad I got the chance to talk with Jack about the work that zero waste Europe is doing, and I think it's important to highlight good news when we come across it. However, before we close out, I think it's important to reflect on how these zero waste efforts exist in a European context. Jack told us that a large part of Zero Waste Europe's effort go towards lobbying the European Union. NGOs in the United States, for example, don't have as much access, comparatively to a centralized legislative body that can effectively regulate against something as specific as waste reduction across the entire 50 states. I'm merely pointing out some differences here, and I think the takeaway of these differences is to refer back to the chat we had about the importance of local action. To achieve similar results as Europe, local governments and state governments in the US will have to take a greater responsibility. The United States is, after all, the largest producer of waste per capita, so we have a lot of work to do. But as Jack also told us, no one knows better how to achieve results in a particular community than that community itself.

[00:31:09.030] - Clark

Okay, hang on just 1 second. I'm about to pop off. I also think it's important. While applauding and encouraging continued progress by European countries, it's important to remember that the western world is trying to solve a problem. That it created the western world through the industrial revolution and growth obsessed capitalism brought us to this wasteful world we live in today. The OGzero waste cities are those of indigenous communities around the world for thousands of years, and many lessons can be learned from indigenous knowledge about how to create systems that don't generate waste in the first place. I do see this philosophy reflected in the work of Zero Waste Europe, but I do find it interesting, and not all too surprising that a lot of circular economy initiatives around the world are led by indigenous communities. Just last year, the province of British Columbia in Canada set aside $1.3 million for Indigenous led zero waste projects from a perspective of environmental justice. As I said earlier, the west invented waste that does not biodegrade, and we've sent it all over the world, not only as consumer products, but also as massive piles of waste. We will have a couple of episodes about the global waste economy, but we sent our waste to places that don't have the same systems or resources to create systems of waste management.

[00:32:26.180] - Clark

Jack also mentioned that there are zero waste city initiatives all over the world. I got curious about this, so I did a little bit of research. I'm going to put some links in the episode description for further reading. If you're as curious about this as I am, but I found in an article written by Jansen Cavello that the Philippines is a country to look to for leadership. Not only have they banned waste incineration, but in response to private lobbyists attempts to repeal this law, they countered with an investment in zero waste initiatives. One success story is from a city called San Fernando Pampanga with a population of over 350,000 in 2018. It was able to reduce its waste by 80% over a six year period and saved hundreds of thousands of dollars in the process. In the same region, Indonesia and Malaysia, among others, are having similar successes. I also want to mention an organization called C40, which, similarly to zero waste Europe, is dedicated to helping cities in the majority world with waste management. They have worked in capital cities with millions of people, Accra, Dakar, Bogota and Bangkok, just to name a few.

[00:33:29.300] - Clark

You can also find more information about them in our show notes. So there are a lot of good things happening all over the world, but that does not mean that we don't still have a long way to go. The last thing I will say is that while we watch and work towards systematic change, we can all get involved in zero waste ourselves. I'm not saying you suck if you don't refill your shampoo in a jam jar, or that we have to completely change all of our wasteful habits tomorrow, but less is always less, and we can all keep that in mind. Okay, that's all you've been listening to, plastic podcast this week's guest was Jack McQuibban. You can find more information about him and zero waste Europe in the episode description. Join us back here next week for a discussion with researcher Dr. Winnie Cortine Jones about biodegradable plastics. Turns out they might not be as environmentally friendly as we hoped they were. Cover art for the series was done by Laurel Wong, and the music that you're listening to was done by Tadeo Cabellos. I'm your host, Clark Marchese. This episode was produced, written, and engineered by me, so if you loved it, I would really appreciate a five star review.

[00:34:36.370] - Clark

The plastic podcast is part of a larger network of science podcast cast called Pine Forest Media. You can find more information about them in the episode description as well, or on the website pineforestpods.com and Instagram at Pineforest Media. We've got some really exciting science podcasts coming out this year, and that review I was talking about really helps the entire network to grow. So thank you to all of you who have made it this far, and we will talk soon.