South Pole 1. Antarctica Calls: Public Engagement and the Power of Connection

Episode Description: In the inaugural episode of "South Pole" starts the series off with a deep dive into public engagement with Antarctica. Joined by Dr. Katie Marx, an Antarctic social scientist and tour guide, the conversation explores the unique relationship people around the world have with this icy continent. From the concept of Gateway Cities like Hobart to the profound social interactions among those who travel or work there, this episode sheds light on how Antarctica is much more than a remote wilderness—it's a place of intense human connection and collaboration.

Dr. Marx discusses her unexpected journey from a career in community services to becoming an Antarctic researcher, highlighting how public perception and engagement can influence environmental policy and conservation efforts. The discussion also covers the importance of participation from all corners of the globe, emphasizing that everyone can contribute to preserving Antarctica, regardless of their proximity or professional background.

Episode Guest: Dr. Katie Marx

More information about Dr. Katie Marx Here

Connect with Dr. Katie Marx on LinkedIn

Article about Penguins…. here

Episode Transcript  and more information on the Pine Forest Media Website

Follow Pine Forest Media on Instagram @pineforestmedia

Hosted, produced, written, and edited by Clark Marchese 

Cover art and PFM logo by Laurel Wong. 

Theme music by Nela Ruiz

Transcript

[00:00:10.160] - Clark

Hello and welcome to South Pole, the podcast that explores all things Antarctica. I am your host, Clark Marchese, and today is our very first episode. So at first I want to say thank you so much for being here. Alright, okay. I did play quite a bit of that theme music, but that's just because I love it so much. And that was the first time you guys get to hear it. But anyways, hello. Welcome. You have found your way to South Pole, a podcast exploring all things Antarctica. And if you've listened to one of my podcasts before, you know that we deep dive into environmental issues with a science and approach. And this entire series is dedicated to the science and of Antarctica. Over the next several, many weeks, we are going to talk about ice, we are going to talk about snow, we are going to talk about elephant seals and krill, and acidification of the Southern Ocean and ice melt and sea level rise and climate change and conservation. And yes, penguins, they will come. But I am going to make you wait just a bit. In addition to these more science heavy episodes, we'll also talk about some Antarctic storytelling, the global treaty system, tourism, extreme sports, and lots more.

[00:01:41.760] - Clark

I was going to have this first episode be about the history of Antarctica because that seemed to make sense as a place to start. However, that's not what we're doing today, first of all, because I'm learning that the history of Antarctica is not just one episode. So make sure that you're following along for scattered episodes about the history of its discovery, individual expeditions and adventure stories, female explorers, indigenous connections, and Antarctica and the Cold War. We're going to have a lot of history mixed in with all the rest. But what we're actually doing today is talking about you. Yes, you, the public, the listeners, people who care about Antarctica, or for the moment, are just simply curious. Today we are talking about public engagement with Antarctica. And we are talking with Doctor Katie Marx, who has a very intimate relationship with Antarctica. This very first guest of South Pole holds a PhD in Antarctic studies. She also works as an Antarctic tour guide and on board historian. She is the co chair of the Public Engagement with Antarctic Research Action group at the Scientific Committee for Antarctic Research. She is also an expert on the Gateway City.

[00:02:53.750] - Clark

Hobart and I will explain what that means as we go along. And after this interview, I thought it was a perfect way to start the series off because this podcast is an example of public engagement with Antarctica together. Doctor Marx and I talked about her interest in the southern region, how people who have and havent set foot on the continent develop strong relationships with the pole, we learned what a gateway city is and what they do, and how people all over the world can support Antarctica from afar and why that matters. Without further ado, I hope you enjoy this very first episode of South Pole. Hello, Doctor Marx. Thank you so much for coming on the show today. The first question I want to ask you is if you could just introduce yourself and tell us a bit about your research.

[00:03:54.760] - Dr. Katie Marx

Sure thing. Well, thank you for having me. My name is Katie Marx. I am what's called an Antarctic social scientist. I work at the University of Tasmania here in La Tiroida, Tasmania in Nipaluna Hobart. My work really focuses on human engagement with Antarctica. So how do we feel about this place? How do our feelings about Antarctica translate into behaviors? And how can we harness that to support its future? Really?

[00:04:21.780] - Clark

So I'm asking everyone this question, have you been to Antarctica? And can you tell us maybe about some of the projects that took you down there?

[00:04:31.200] - Dr. Katie Marx

It's funny because have you been to Antarctica? Question is, far and away the first question that anyone ever gets asked when they mention that they work in this space. Yes, I have. I work as. In addition to my day job as a researcher, I also work as an Antarctic tour guide and on board historian for a tour operator. So I tend to do that over the summer months.

[00:04:54.610] - Clark

Okay, so you've been there quite a few times at this point, then. I'm curious, what made you interested in studying Antarctica in the first place?

[00:05:01.780] - Dr. Katie Marx

Oh, that's a great question. How old am I now? I'm 38, and I started my PhD in Antarctic studies when I was, like, 33. So it's something that came to me relatively late in my career. I actually, my undergrad was in ancient Greek and literature. My master's was in creative writing. I spent ten years working in community development and community services, in things like disability policy. So Antarctica was a real left field thing for me to move into, but it happened because I kind of got bird tailed on my. My old career. And ever since I was a kid, I had this fascination, not necessarily just with Antarctica, but with the southern parts of the world. I got this book when I was a little kid, which was about Patagonia, and it just sparked something in me. And I remember I'd be in my office in my old job, just kind of sitting there on Google Earth, just, you know, spinning the map around these southern latitudes. When we moved to Hobart about seven years ago, Antarctica and kind of these gateway connections were just everywhere. So when I was thinking about career change, all these kind of factors combined to make me turn my gaze south.

[00:06:19.790] - Dr. Katie Marx

I'd always thought it was a cool thing to work in, but very much had thought that it was only a place for scientists. But I fortuitously came across an article in a local paper talking about big project that was happening around the gateway cities. And this was a project about understanding people and about community engagement. And I thought, oh, that's something that someone like me can do. And dove in headfirst. Really?

[00:06:42.580] - Clark

Okay, I'm glad I asked the question because that's such an interesting entry point that you found into this space. And we definitely love interdisciplinarity on this show. There's one last question I like to ask everybody sort of at the top, because I'm going to make a word bubble based off of everyone's response. But is there one word that you would use to describe Antarctica?

[00:07:02.490] - Dr. Katie Marx

Yeah, I thought about this one, and it kind of sprang up to me almost immediately. I see Antarctica as a really social place.

[00:07:10.110] - Clark

Oh, that's not maybe what we would have expected, perhaps.

[00:07:13.930] - Dr. Katie Marx

I mean, there's a few reasons for that, but you think about it for people who visit, the majority of people who visit do it in intensely social circumstances. Either you're down on a base and I mean, kind of like locked in with a bunch of other people for a long period of time, or like me, you go on a ship. When you're there, you're having these almost sublime experiences. You know, it's a gobsmackingly beautiful, wild place. And experiencing that bonds you with the other people really strongly. So when I think about Antarctica and when I think about missing Antarctica, it's so bound up in the people that I experience it with and my team down there, but it's social for so many other reasons. I mean, when I'm there as well, I'm constantly thinking about the people I care about back home and how I can frame this experience and share it with them. And even for those people who don't ever visit, you know, it's possible to have a really strong relationship with Antarctica. And that relationship is built up through cultural meanings and social meanings, which. Which we develop as a group together over, you know, decades and centuries.

[00:08:17.910] - Dr. Katie Marx

You even think about the most kind of quintessentially solo experiences that you can have in Antarctica. You know, people skiing across the continent or doing an ice mail or something like that. That isn't something that you can do without help. So Antarctica, by its nature, forces collaboration on people, even on the most individualistic of people. So it's highly social place. It's one of the things I love about it.

[00:08:39.870] - Clark

Okay. I was not expecting that answer, and I like that answer. And I like that I was not expecting that answer, but it makes sense for someone who works with public engagement. Not everyone's answer to that question might make it onto the final episode, but I just think that one really has to do with what we're talking about today. There's one word that's come up a couple times so far already, and that's the Gateway City. You have done a lot of work and research on gateway cities. You live in a gateway city, at least when you're not in Antarctica. So can you tell us what that word means?

[00:09:09.990] - Dr. Katie Marx

Great question. Look, in a nutshell. A Gateway city is a town or city that claims a special relationship with Antarctica and helps facilitate the world's relationship with Antarctica. So, traditionally, these would have been places that are geographically close to Antarctica and served as launching sites and return sites for expeditioners. So you're traveling down south. You need to stop in and stock up on potatoes and sailors before you make that final trip. Gateway cities were places where you could do that. As the years have gone on, it's become much more than that as well, though. Gateway cities are places that have historical connections, political connections. You know, they're somewhere like, Hobart is the home to a portion of the Antarctic treaty system. They are places where there are high concentrations of expertise, both scientific and research wise, but also logistical. So they're places which tend to derive economic viability, at least partially through their engagement with Antarctica. So there's these really deep and interwoven connections that gateway cities have.

[00:10:17.360] - Clark

I have a hunch that this might not be the most simple question to answer, but how many gateway cities do we have, and who are they?

[00:10:25.630] - Dr. Katie Marx

I think there's a few different interpretations as to which are the gateway cities. Right now, if you were to google it, you would probably see mention of what we might call the big five. So these are Hobart in Australia, Christchurch in New Zealand, Cape Town in South Africa, and then Puntarena, Sinchilla, and Osuaya in Argentina. These five cities have signed. In 2009, they signed a memorandum of understanding with one another, saying, yes, we are gateways. Yes, we're going to work together to build our own and our mutual capacity as gateways to Antarctica. So all of these cities have been really active in collaborating and in claiming that title and that space. Certainly they also, you know, own the lion's share of business with Antarctica. You know, these are the sites which people tend to come through when they're visiting, either as expeditioners, bio national programs, or as tourists. And they're also where there's a high concentration of Antarctic business and research and logistics. But there are other places as well. Like a good example would be Puerto Williams, which is in. Also in Chile, but it's. It's on Isla Navarinos. They are, in the process, I think they've maybe even already developed a sub Antarctic research center down there.

[00:11:43.590] - Dr. Katie Marx

And they're hosting more and more tourists every year as well. Another place might be Stanley in the Falklands, Malvinas. They have a long history with Antarctica. You could, for example, read about Shackleton spending time there whilst he was really trying to rescue his team who were on Elephant island. And again, there's a long history of people departing from the Falklands to Maldinis to go down to Antarctica, coming back. So there's a lot of different places which have ties, but the big five are the kind of ones that are really politically activated in this space right now.

[00:12:15.680] - Clark

So as the series goes along, we'll have individual episodes dedicated to understanding each of these five gateway cities and also some of the other places that have similar connections. But I'm wondering if you can tell us a little bit about what they collaborate on specifically and if there are certain things that make each of the big five unique or something different they each bring to the table.

[00:12:36.370] - Dr. Katie Marx

I like the notion that they all bring different things to the table, though. I read a lot of comic books and watch a lot of cartoons, so you kind of got me thinking about, like, the gateway cities is Voltron or something like that. They all have us. You know, we've got the techie one and then we've got the adventurous one. And that is, to a degree, the case. I think one of the reasons that the gateway cities are keen to cooperate is because, with some exceptions, they're not necessarily cutting one another's lunch. They tend to facilitate access to different parts of Antarctica. So, for example, people will use New Zealand and Australia to access East Antarctica, whereas they'll go via South America to go to the Antarctic peninsula. But they all also tend to have different levels of expertise about different things. So Ushuaia is very much a tourist town. This is traditionally where the majority of people leaving as crews, tourists, will leave from somewhere like Hobart. Anecdotally, we can't really back. I don't know how we can back this up, but Hobart claims to have the highest concentration of Antarctic researchers in the world.

[00:13:40.030] - Dr. Katie Marx

So it's very much a place where you go for research expertise. So one of the focuses of the collaboration is how can we share this knowledge with each other? How can we use each city's respective strengths to bolster the others?

[00:13:53.990] - Clark

So Hobart is the one you are most familiar with in Australia. You live there now. You also did your PhD dissertation exploring how Hobart exists as a gateway city. So how does Hobart exist as a gateway city?

[00:14:07.810] - Dr. Katie Marx

Yeah, look. Well, look like the other gateways. Hobart has a long history with Antarctica. And, you know, that's a history that predates european invasion, because people who have lived here for a very long time have relationships through the far south. By looking at the southern lights, which are called the noyina here, and noticing migrating species, noticing weather patterns, there's a, you know, people always to this day, talk about getting off the plane at Hobart airport and getting hit by that blast of southern air. So people have had an indirect or remote connection with Antarctica for a very long time here over the years. You know, Hobart, as a modern city founded a lot of its economic prosperity on whaling and sealing and things that exploited the far south. And you can still see that if you walk around our pubs, you walk around our buildings. A lot of that stuff was built on whales and seals and even penguins, which is a fairly dark splodge in our history these days. Do you want me water?

[00:15:09.880] - Clark

I don't. Do I want.

[00:15:13.040] - Dr. Katie Marx

For people listening, go Google a guy called Joseph Hatch in Macquarie island. He was harvesting penguin oil for quite some time. It's nasty stuff, but you can also read about the response to that and this kind of global move towards conservation, which sprung out of that. So, yeah, it's an interesting but quite gruesome story.

[00:15:37.170] - Clark

Okay, y'all, I did Google this and I put a link to an article in the episode description, if you're so inclined. Now, there's a small button next to the pause button where you can skip forward about 15 seconds, which you should probably do right now if you don't want to know what happened. Okay, you have three, two, one more seconds. The article is titled boiled to death penguins back from the brink. I guess mister hatch boiled around 3 million penguins to make oil. But doctor Marx is right. The response of outrage prompted what the article calls one of the first international wildlife campaigns to protect the penguins. And we have DNA evidence now taken by scientists monitoring the populations that the campaign was successful.

[00:16:25.290] - Dr. Katie Marx

But, yeah. So these days, though, Hobart is very much geared towards being a place that can help us understand and protect Antarctica. We have a lot of research institutions focusing on understanding Antarctica. We have a high degree of logistical expertise as well.

[00:16:42.070] - Clark

One thing that you mentioned earlier was how people in gateway cities have specific cultural meanings having to do with Antarctica. Are there any that come to mind when we're thinking about Hobart specifically?

[00:16:53.220] - Dr. Katie Marx

One of the things that's this kind of common statement in Hobart is that everybody knows somebody who's been down there. You know, Hobart's not necessarily a big city. We've got about a quarter of a million people. So it's definitely the kind of place where if you want to gossip about someone in the pub, you have to kind of do the old shoulder check before you do that. And you should probably keep your mouth shut anyway. So it's a small place. People tend to know one another. And so built into that notion is, oh, well, everybody knows someone who's been south. So people have this idea that it's a place where it's easy to travel south. A place where we can kind of all share in that experience. Based on my research, I think that's a little bit of a myth. When you scratch the surface, you'll find that those kind of social connections are more concentrated for some groups of people than others. Youll certainly find that people also feel that the Antarctic community here is a little bit closed off and could do more to bridge some of the divides that exist between the Antarctic sector and the wider community.

[00:17:52.490] - Clark

That sort of relates to what you were saying about how Hobart is unique as a gateway city in perhaps having the highest concentrations of researchers. But to address this divide, im wondering how can Hobart residents who are not part of a scientific community contribute to the Gateway City ness of the Gateway City?

[00:18:10.660] - Dr. Katie Marx

That is the million dollar question and it's the one that I looked into for my PhD research. It's really tough right now. If you work in the Antarctic sector, you almost enter this bubble in social research or social science. We might call it something like strong bonding, social capital. People, particularly people who go down to Antarctica together, have this really intense experience. They form a really close knit team that's great for them, but it tends to lockpad everybody else. Added to that, the high degree of specialization that is sometimes required to work in Antarctica and our tendency to depict ourselves as kind of big heroes for going down there, which, you know, helps for recruitment. But, you know, all of these things combine to create a little bit of an elitist image which makes it really, really difficult for people who want to get involved to actually get involved. Added to that, we don't have many participation opportunities that are available. If somebody says, I've seen a documentary about Antarctica, and now I want to help. What can they do? If somebody says, oh, I saw something on the Hobart City Council website about Antarctica being a gateway?

[00:19:20.140] - Dr. Katie Marx

What can I do? There's not many answers to that question right now, and that's really where we need to focus. Our research is on finding and creating platforms for meaningful participation. Another key issue, though, is the existence of what I might call the experience hierarchy. So this is a prevailing social dynamic that I identified in my research, in which people's value as a member of the Antarctic community is determined by whether they've been to Antarctica and what they've done when they were in Antarctica. So it's really common, if you want, wander around the Antarctic sector in Hobart to hear things like, well, have you been south? And if you haven't, it's like, oh, you poor thing. And if you have been south, well, you know, did you overwinter? Where did you go? Did you just stay on the coast or did you go inland? And all of these things, you know, create this hierarchy in which you are only a true Antarctic. And if you've spent 50 million years at the South Pole and grown a massive beard, you know, I understand why that exists because it is a profound experience, but it's also a really privileged experience.

[00:20:28.440] - Dr. Katie Marx

You know, at the top of this hierarchy, there's maybe six people. If we're talking about broad based public engagement, we need to find ways to break down that hierarchy and to say to people, you can be an Antarctican even if you've gone as a tourist, even if you've never get to go in your entire life, because that is the vast majority of people. So there are a lot of social but also structural things that enforce the Antarctic experience hierarchy. Right now in Hobart, a really good example is the Australian Antarctic Medal, which is given out by the federal government to honor the services of somebody who's really contributed to Australia's activities in Antarctica. And if you read the. The bylines of the award, it says that except under exceptional circumstances, only people who spent twelve months for more in Antarctica are eligible, which is a huge oversight from my perspective. I mean, I know people who've dedicated their lives to Antarctica and have never set foot on the continent. So if we want people to be actively engaged with Antarctica, if we want people to care and to feel like they can take action to protect Antarctica, then we need to show that we value their contributions, that we need to, for example, open up the criteria for the Australian Antarctic Medal.

[00:21:35.780] - Clark

I think this is a really important thing to keep in mind as we go through the series, because you will remember from the start of the episode, I asked doctor Marx if she'd ever been to Antarctica. And I like to ask all of my guests this question because I like to hear these stories and to share them. But I've recorded a handful of interviews for the show at this point, and some researchers tell me no. They tell me that their work doesn't require a visit and that their colleagues collect data and send it back to them. And these are still people who've dedicated their entire careers, sometimes decades, to Antarctica and should definitely be acknowledged for their contributions and eligible for recognition in various forms similar to and including the australian Antarctic metal. So I just want us to keep that in mind as we go through the series. You've mentioned a couple of times the importance of participation, and scientists are participating from around the world. But can you tell me why public participation and engagement is so important for the sake of Antarctica?

[00:22:29.950] - Dr. Katie Marx

I think a really good way to approach that is to look at history. So you're familiar with the establishment of the Madrid protocol?

[00:22:37.560] - Clark

No.

[00:22:38.680] - Dr. Katie Marx

Okay, cool. When we talk about the Antarctic treaty, we tend to think, right, peace, science, environmental protection, cooperation, all of these things. Right. So if we want to look at why participation is important in Antarctica, one really good way to do that is to look at history. So, in the past, we've had really important things developed in Antarctic governance, like the Madrid Protocol, which came in to establish a really important set of environmental protection measures when it comes to how we engage with Antarctica as people, that wouldn't have happened without widespread public support. We had organizations like environmental protection organizations mobilizing big public campaigns. We know that we'll need something like that again in the future. Antarctica is facing a raft of political environmental challenges in the coming decades. Put simply, it needs friends. So we need people to care. And in order for people to care, they need to feel that they can actually do something. One of the big challenges we face right now is that a lot of the issues facing Antarctica are what we might call trans boundary. To imagine it, imagine that you've got a forest and you chop down a tree in that forest.

[00:23:48.190] - Dr. Katie Marx

That's an environmental issue which is caused by a local action. In contrast, imagine that there is a river running into that forest, and at the top of a hill, several states away, there's a factory which is pumping chemicals into that river. So the chemicals get into the forest, and they have an environmental impact. But the source of that environmental impact is not local, it's transboundary. So things like climate change, plastics, pollution, these are all big threats to Antarctica right now. But they're not coming from within Antarctica. They're coming from outside, and they're global. They're not originating from any single source. So when it comes to engagement and participation, the big challenge we face is. Is saying to people, well, yes, we all need to do something, but where do we start? So participation and engagement is critical, but we need to think about what it actually looks like in an Antarctic context.

[00:24:38.670] - Clark

So I have two questions for you. The first is, for someone who is not a researcher, for someone who is not a tourist, for someone who is not a gateway resident, what would you say the ideal level of engagement is for just the average citizen? And then the second question would be, if there is someone who wanted to go above and beyond, what could they do? What would you have them do?

[00:25:02.070] - Dr. Katie Marx

That is the million dollar question. For somebody who's interested in Antarctica and cares about Antarctica and wants to help, there are a lot of different things they can do, even on an individual level. As I mentioned, Antarctica, its main threats right now are transboundary things like microplastics, things like climate change. So any action that we take as individuals and as communities at home to lessen our footprint will help Antarctica. So being a good global environmental citizen is, number one, the best thing that we can do. But when we're talking about getting specifically involved in Antarctica, we also encourage people to actually find out more about their country's involvement with Antarctica. You know, is your country a signatory to the Antarctic Treaty? What's their involvement with the treaty? Like, do they have their own national research program? Find out more about it. Find out how you can support it. So those are some of the things that we advise people to do more broadly as well. There are a number of emerging citizen science projects that people can become involved in remotely. Yeah, depending where you are. There are also things like Antarctic heritage trusts. These are organizations that are dedicated towards preserving and sharing the cultural heritage of certain parts of Antarctica.

[00:26:18.850] - Dr. Katie Marx

So you can get involved with that if history is your. History is your passion. So there are some ways that people can get involved. There are also limitations. For example, right now, the Antarctic treaty system, they, you know, their meetings are not broadcast. We don't. It's very difficult to understand what's happening in there unless you're able to wait a little while and read the reports that come out of there. So we need to do some more work on transparency so that people can actually understand what's going on.

[00:26:45.010] - Clark

Okay. Those are really good answers. And I like that first one, especially because people think maybe, oh, Antarctica is so far away, we don't have anything to do with it. They might assume our actions have no impact on it, but that's actually quite far, far from the truth.

[00:27:01.250] - Dr. Katie Marx

Oh, yeah. Like, I mean, if I back right at the start of the interview and you asked for my word about Antarctica, I said social, but my close second place was connected. Everything that we do here impacts there. And that is increasingly the case with the Anthropocene, how our reach as a species in terms of environmental impact is spreading. So our fingerprints are in Antarctica, even if we physically don't ever get to visit.

[00:27:26.420] - Clark

Let me ask you now, as we're starting to round out the end of the episode, what is your favorite thing about Antarctica?

[00:27:32.720] - Dr. Katie Marx

You know, I think really, though, on a. On a big picture level, my favorite thing about Antarctica is its ability to bring out the best in people. As I said before, when we. When we engage with Antarctica, whether it's remotely or whether it's there in person, it forces collaboration upon us. You look at the Antarctic Treaty, it this remarkable piece of environmental governance that prioritizes peace and research that came about at the height of the Cold War. You can say that it came about because of the Cold War, but either way, we were in a dark period of history and we were able to pull something beautiful out of the fire. We need to hold on to that. We need to, you know, we're facing, you know, increasingly, you know, dark times, both environmentally and politically. Now we need to look at what we've been able to achieve in the past with things like the treaty, and we need to be able to look at what collaboration can bring out in us. So Antarctica is a site of bringing out all of these good things about people.

[00:28:28.720] - Clark

That is the most perfect answer I could have hoped for. The last question is, where can people find you and follow your work if you want to be found, I guess.

[00:28:37.620] - Dr. Katie Marx

Yeah, for sure. Come follow me. Look, I used to be on Twitter, but alas, no more. You can look me up on LinkedIn. It's Marx with an x. You know, look for me with a photo of diving into the water in Antarctica. I have a fairly rogi limited Instagram page, but it's there, so you can come and follow me there. You can also just contact me via University of Tasmania. So if you google Katie Marx, Utas, you'll find my contact details, you'll find a little bit of a researcher profile page. Come say hi, I love a chat.

[00:29:11.400] - Clark

Okay, great. Well, listeners can find links to all of those things in the episode description. And this is the part where I say thank you so much for your time. Thank you so much for sharing your research with us and teaching us more about Antarctica.

[00:29:24.970] - Dr. Katie Marx

Great. Thank you for the opportunity.

[00:29:38.740] - Clark

All right, a major thank you to Doctor Katie Marx Marx. And as I was saying in the beginning, before I had this interview, I wasn't planning for it to be the very first episode. But after our chat, I kept thinking about the type of person who wants to engage with Antarctica, but who is far away, who doesn't really have a reason to go and doesn't know how to get involved. And I realized that kind of describes me. I've never been to Antarctica, and you all will be the first to know if that changes. But in all likelihood, that probably will not happen for me. But that's okay, and I'm still so curious about it. Nevertheless, this podcast is a way for me to engage with Antarctica and to provide a space for others to do the same. So if you are wanting to engage with Antarctica, this is a very good place for you to start. You can follow the show, listen along, share it with someone you know if you're so inclined. And with that, I will say one last time just how excited I am to start this exploration of Antarctica with all of you.

[00:30:42.050] - Clark

So thank you so much for listening, and you can find me here next week. You've been listening to South Pole. You can find more information about this week's guest and links to their work in the episode description cover art for the show was done by Laurel Wong, and the music you're listening to was done by Neela Ruiz. I am your host, Clark Marchese, and this episode was produced, written, and engineered by me. So if you found it interesting, send it to someone you know. South Pole is part of a larger network of sciency podcasts called Pine Forest Media. We've got one on plastic, one on drinking water, and a couple new ones coming out soon. You can find more information about us in the episode description as well, or@pineforestpods.com we're also on Instagram and TikTok at pineforestmedia. And if you love the show and want to support science communication like this, a five star rating across platforms and a review on Apple Podcasts is one of the best things you can do to help the entire network to grow. All right, thank you to all of you who have made it this far.