South Pole Episode 20: Putting Antarctic Women on the Map

In this season finale, South Pole delves into Carol Devine's impactful projects that connect environmental stewardship with Antarctic history. Carol shares her experiences leading the Antarctic Cleanup Project, where volunteers removed waste left in polar regions, modeling environmental accountability. We also explore her Mapping Antarctic Women project, which celebrates female contributions to Antarctic exploration by identifying place names across the continent named in their honor. Through Carol’s stories, listeners gain insight into the intertwined history of human impact and environmental preservation in Antarctica.

Episode Guest: Carol Devine

Learn more about Carol Devine here

Follow Carol Devine on Instagram

Follow Carol Devine on X

Find The Antarctic Book of Cooking and Cleaning on Good Reads and Harper Collins

Read about the Mapping Antarctic Women project here 

Find the Map of Antarctic Women here

Episode Transcript  and more information on the Pine Forest Media Website

Follow Pine Forest Media on Instagram @pineforestmedia

Hosted, produced, written, and edited by Clark Marchese 

Cover art and PFM logo by Laurel Wong. 

Theme music by Nela Ruiz

Transcript: [00:00:09.380] - Clark

Hello, and welcome to another episode of South Pole, the podcast that explores everything Antarctica. I am your host, Clark Marchese, and today we are talking about Antartic women, place names, plastic, cleanups, maps, and interdisciplinary activism with guest, Carol Devine. All right. Hello, everyone. It is lovely to have you here. Before we jump into it today, I have to tell you that this is the season finale of South Pole. We cover quite a lot in season 2, from ice cores to food webs, sustainable krill fishing, permafrost, and the first explorer to fly across the continent. I'm glad you made it here with us to the end. But this is not the end and End. We will be back with season 3 and 10 more interdisciplinary episodes of Antartic Stories and Antartic Science in just a handful of weeks. And today, we are ending with a big finish. We are joined today by Carol Devine, a researcher and writer who has worked on the intersection of global health, environmental issues, and polar exploration. Carol has led a number of projects that emphasize the connection between human well-being and planetary health, particularly in the polar regions, and we are going to talk about two of them today.

[00:01:28.870] - Clark

First, we'll explore the Antartic Cleanup Project, where Carol and a team of volunteers collaborated with the research stations to remove waste left in Antarctica, while also raising awareness about environmental protocols set by the Antartic Treaty. Then we'll shift to her project, Mapping Antartic Women, which highlights the contributions of women in Antarctica by tracing the place names across the continent that honor their legacies, bringing to light the told and untold stories of women's role in polar history. I hope you enjoyed the episode, and I really enjoyed my chat with Carol. I'll say upfront that the projects we talked about today are linked in the show notes so that anytime during the episode you're curious about them, you can find more about them there. While you're there, you might consider giving us a one-tap five-star review so that more people can learn about these projects, too. All right, let's dive in. Okay, we are recording. Welcome to the show. The first question I have is if you could just introduce yourself and tell us a bit about your research.

[00:02:33.520] - Carol Devine

My name is Carol Devine. I'm based in Toronto, Canada. I'm really lucky because I've been able to do research on Antarctica, on planetary health, on humanitarian humanitarian issues and health crises. But what I realized is that they're all more connected than ever.

[00:02:51.140] - Clark

Okay, yeah. We like to explore interdisciplinarity on this show quite a bit. Do you want to speak to that link at all or how any of the topics that you've tackled in your career weave together?

[00:03:01.470] - Carol Devine

Sure. I mean, for me, I used to see my world and my work as pretty divided. Here's, Carol doing this one thing, and now I'm doing another secret agent. It was really in talking with a colleague in the mid-late 2000s, we were working deeply on HIV in South Africa, and we were really fighting for antiretrovirals and access for people to antiretrovirals and all of that wonderful, important activism. Then I was also working on Antarctica. I I was looking at what was happening with plastics and microplastics in the Antarctica Treaty and how this place, this continent at the bottom of the world is so important for all of humanity, even though, what is the saying, it's the most beautiful place you will never visit. I was doing this Antartic work and early climate change work and microplastics and plastics and environmental pollution work, and then working with Doctors Without Borders, Médecins Sans Frontières, and then this other organization, Dignitas, on HIV in Malawi. I realized They might seem so distinct, but you have history, colonization, peoples, science, evidence, diplomacy, activism, unusual partners in crime, in making the world a better place.

[00:04:13.530] - Clark

Okay, I'm hearing that you've covered quite a lot of topics from quite a lot of places throughout your career, and we're going to continue to hear how they are all connected. But there are two projects that I want to talk about with you today. One question I often ask at the top of the show is, have you been to Antarctica? I think we can just jump right into it because the first project was the Antarctica Cleanup Project. Maybe you can give us the who, what, when, where, and why about that.

[00:04:36.990] - Carol Devine

Yeah, it's such a delight to talk about it. Thank you. The true genesis story was I was working with this organization. I was quite young, and it was an organization that was doing early ecotourism and travel. The owner, Sam Blyth, said to me, I want you to start a foundation that does young people. This was early volunteerism with the environmental community service angle. I was like, great, but I actually really want to go to Antarctica. I just had this huge desire to go to Antarctica. Maybe it's because I grew up in the north and I thought I was at the North Pole, but I wasn't. But I've just been interested in polar regions and snow and its importance, but also just a visceral feeling. Anyway, so I started with this organization, the VU Foundation, Volunteer International Environmental Work Projects, to do these projects with young people, older people, and And Antarctica had to be on the radar. I wanted to go to Antarctica, but not just as a tourist. And really, it's a place of science, humanity, and not for making territorial claims or dumping garbage. So long story short, The opportunity came up because a friend, Pat Shaw, who also worked for the company, said, There's a lot of garbage there.

[00:05:50.620] - Carol Devine

The Antartic Protocols of the Antartic Treaty is coming into place. This place that we've committed to peace and science. The scientists and early tourism, unfortunately, are not picking up their garbage. It wasn't a huge criticism, but just an acknowledgement that we used to think of the ocean, not we, but humanity and not all of humanity, some more than others, as this garbage can. Maybe Antarctica is a garbage can, too, because it's so far away, it doesn't matter. So he said, Why don't we do this small initiative where we bring volunteers who are going to see Antarctica anyways, who are committed to go and see Antarctica, have the means, make it a little more cheap or more accessible price-wise, go at the end of the season, and literally bring back garbage. So it was as much of an awareness razor as it was a cleanup. But we called it Cleanup Project Antarctica, and we needed a partner. And this was back in '94, '95, 1994. I naively but earnestly wrote to research stations, Hello, I'm Carol Devine. I run a small foundation in Canada. Can we come and help clean up your base and learn with you?

[00:06:57.370] - Carol Devine

It wasn't like a tisk-tisk. It was, How can We work with you to implement the environmental protocol and literally help you clean up. And wrote to the Australians and the Brits and the Poles. And I mentioned the Polish research station, the Polish Academy of Sciences, wrote us back and said, Sure, come. It was very generous and very thoughtful. So we went for a first season and we had geography teachers and people who may not normally have gone to Antarctica. We were really lucky because how are we going to get people to go pay a considerable amount of money, go and see Antarctica, but also literally physically pick up garbage? People did. We were really lucky because it was the time of the fax, and we faxed press releases like, Come and help us clean up Antarctica. It got in the New York Times, the Boston Globe, Canadian newspapers, and people signed up. Then the bigger project that was at the Russian research station with the Russian Antarctica Expedition was a more It was a serious three-month project. With my colleagues, Wendy Trusler, who was the cook and resident artist, and Lena Nikolaiva, who was our Russian liaison officer, we literally led teams of volunteers to pick up garbage.

[00:08:13.930] - Carol Devine

Then it went back to Argentina, some of it back to Poland. But that's another part of the story. There's no morally superior place for garbage.

[00:08:23.240] - Clark

Sure. I think probably the impact of that, obviously, there was an impact in Antarctica, but then people take it back home with them, right? They're probably more conscious about their own plastic use and talk to people as well.

[00:08:34.660] - Carol Devine

Exactly. That's what people said to us, that, yeah.

[00:08:38.840] - Clark

You mentioned how this project could help stations meet their obligations towards the environmental protocol of the Antartic Treaty. Can you maybe tell us what that protocol is and how this project relates to it?

[00:08:49.380] - Carol Devine

Yeah. They're really amazing, and there's a lot of intrigue behind it, but the 1959 Antartic Treaty that said, This continent is important for all of humanity. That was a really important recognition by the first 12 signatories, but also the other countries who saw it as a... It was about to go into a place to chop up for resources, geopolitical, this is our section, this is our section. It was a great moment to say, and it was related to this international geophysical year where scientists from all countries work together to understand our planet. But just to say that the environmental protocol, so you're asking about the stations and how this project related. Well, stations have to report. The environmental protocol, which came out later, I think in the late '80s, but was implemented in the '90s when we did our project, stations have to be accountable. Once you make a treaty and once you make a protocol, you have to be accountable to it. I know that our project, both with the Polish Academy of Sciences and the Russian Antartic Expedition, got reported at these meetings, these IATO, these Antartic Treaty meetings. It was just modeling and hoping to get the word out.

[00:09:57.080] - Carol Devine

It was an extremely minute project in the scale a lot of things, and we know a lot more now than we did in the mid '90s about plastics and garbage. But I think we just helped to model that collaboratively, citizens who are not scientists can even support, know about it, and urge stations to fulfill their commitments.

[00:10:16.530] - Clark

Yeah, okay. I love it. It's accountability, it's outreach, it's education, it's activism, awareness, and action all in one. I really like that you were able to support them in that way. You also co-authored a book about this experience, which I would like to hear a little bit about. I'm also I'm also curious about how the title came to be. It's called The Antartic Book of cooking and Cleaning. I think the cleaning part is clear thus far in this conversation, but how did you come up with that title?

[00:10:39.910] - Carol Devine

When you asked that question, I think back, okay, it wasn't a super clear line how it came about, but we really wanted to understand the polar genre. When I say we, I say my co-writer, Wendy Trusler, who was the cook for the Russians. The one thing the Russians told us when they agreed that we could come at their station and work with them to remove some garbage survey it, they said, You have to bring your own cook. Food is so incredibly important because also part of the Antartic Treaty, you can't eat the fish, you can't eat the seals. There's not a lot there. You have to bring your own food. The cleaning part came with Wendy bringing our resident, very talented and resourceful chef and also very collaborative. There was this polar genre, and we were thinking of our book title, looking at the Polar Journal. Then the polar writings at the times were wonderful. Some of the newspapers that came out of these sunless, freezing cold, darkest, bleakest place on Earth. There were these journals with recipes and people's stories and little science pieces and drawings It's an art. Doctor artists went to Antarctica on these early expeditions.

[00:11:49.060] - Carol Devine

We wanted the name and the book itself to echo this wonderful genre, if you can say, about Antarctica, which is really hybrid art, science, politics, love, et cetera. We wanted to reflect, too, that Wendy also was such a critical part, and the food was such a critical part of the expedition because we borrowed food from the Russians. We traded things. Wendy also made a real effort to go and visit the Chilean research station. Like, Antarctica is your audience and is so Antarctica knowledgeable. But for those who don't, I mean, you have a Chilean station next door to a Russian station, and there's a one hour time difference, and they're two minutes apart. You have down the island, you've got the Chinese base. Wendy really made an effort to go and collect recipes and to do cooking lessons and to share, break bread and share food. She had this famous bread. But just to say we wanted the book to reflect, be playful, be a bit didactic and be a bit mysterious, but also, yeah, draw people in.

[00:12:51.100] - Clark

I think as you were speaking, we're also getting a recurrence of this theme of interdisciplinarity on how the book involves all those different aspects of the science and the history the culture all in that one continent. We're going to shift gears a little bit into the second project that we're going to talk about today. You also worked on something called Mapping Antarctica Women. Before we get into it, maybe, can you quickly discuss what we know about the role of women on the continent or the role of women not on the continent, rather? Because I understand there's a history of exclusion for women, and at one point, they were even not allowed to go. Can you maybe tell us a little bit about that or set the stage for your project?

[00:13:26.340] - Carol Devine

Yeah. I mean, Antarctica really started... Who knows, really, when Antarctica was first discovered or seen. We know that in ancient times, it was imagined, which is fascinating that humans can imagine a polar North and South. But anyway, to say about women, we know that on some of the more famous like the Shackleton expeditions in the early 1900s, that women applied. I actually went to the Scott Poler research archives and touched the letters of women saying, We'd like to go to Antarctica and we will Dawn masculine attire. We want to go. And also you have serious stories like Dr. Lois Brown, who was one of the first women with a group to overwinter in Antarctica, not until the '60s. She had scientists. Women were banned, the US Sanders, that was military run. Now it's more like science-based government run, but said, There's no place in Antarctica. There's no toilets in Antarctica for women. There's no place for women in Antarctica. And there was no real good reason. And you had geologists bringing home rocks for Lois Jones and her team because they weren't allowed to go. And these male scientists were actually great because they advocated that women could go themselves.

[00:14:41.820] - Carol Devine

These are fantastic scientists. So the hero Those are the women and the men and whatever gender you identify by. But just to say that the fact that women were excluded is not cool. Some of the efforts that this mapping, Antartic Women Project that I started, and even recognizing when Wendy and Lena and I were there in the 1990s, some of the stations still didn't have women yet, and yet we were three women leading the expedition. We didn't pay too much attention to it. Definitely, there was sexism, sexual abuse, exclusion. But also, I think there's still problems today, but it's incredible and really fantastic and to be celebrated, the amazing work of women scientists leading the bases, making massive discoveries, and being logistics crew. But I also wonder, we We have this obsession with firsts, but I wonder if some of the first women in Antarctica were not Indigenous women from the South Pacific with some of those records, or women from Chile or Argentina, geographically close. I'm curious about those untold and unknown stories because I believe they're out there.

[00:15:49.220] - Clark

I'm curious then. I guess it seems like the restrictions on women participation would have been in the context of specific expeditions or specific countries. I'm wondering, is there a date at which or a moment at which inclusion was more accepted or allowed, or did it happen incrementally with specific expeditions and specific countries?

[00:16:09.220] - Carol Devine

Yeah, great question, Clark. There was no specific place in time, but the first known woman or documented, and I'm sure we'll discover earlier ones, was Carol Mickelson in 1935, who went with shipping whaling was huge. She saw Antarctica and wrote about it, and I think her journals are partly lost. But back in 1935, she was a shipping magnet's wife, and whaling was, in fact, decimating and tragically really harming the whale population back then. But then a few years where Ingrid Christensen, another wife, went. But it doesn't mean they don't have agency. It doesn't mean that they weren't intrepid and chose to go to this place and weren't extremely amazing people. And then I think it started in the '50s and '60s, like South Africa, the Brits, the Germans. It really didn't start to become more equitable, I would say, till about the '80s, '90s. Then you still have countries sending their first female expeditioners, scientists, doctors, logisticians, to later because you also have India, Korea, China. It's a really fascinating place. But I think they're saying now more than a third of women working at research more More than a third of workers at research stations are women.

[00:17:32.800] - Clark

Well, that's a great trend. Talking to more and more people in this space, I do hear somewhat consistently that there is still a long way to go, but I also hear that the atmosphere is starting to change. But now to talk about the project itself, the project of mapping Andarctic Women, can you give us the elevator pitch for this project, too?

[00:17:49.350] - Carol Devine

I really love maps. I was sitting at the research station, and the Russians were our hosts, and they were really wonderful and so generous and so experienced. The base commander was named I'm Serge, and I was in his office, and he was saying, be a bit careful on the glacier. I know you're from Canada, but be careful. There's not a lot of women have not been here. And behind him is this map, and it says Marguerite Bay. And I was just zooming in and out, and I was like, yeah, women have not been in Antarctica, but actually, they're all over the map. I haven't studied it super professionally or formally, but I think if you look at cartography, it's got to be a continent with such a high number of female place names. So it came about very organically, with an observation and a joke. And then when I got home, I'm like, I need to find out who was Marguerite. And she was the second wife of Charcot, a French explorer. And it was the story of women left behind, some of the early mapping. And some of it were loving tributes or even the name of...

[00:18:53.380] - Carol Devine

I also heard rumors like, Oh, that was Shackleton's, the named after his lover or whatever. In my map, which is only a tiny fraction, that map that's out there published and designed beautifully by Aiden Megan and through an article in Ernest Journal, a UK journal, it was a tiny percentage of the female place names that I've mapped and that people have contributed So it's been a crowd mapping. But the idea is to celebrate the women. So back to you have a Deli land is like French named after French Explorer's children, or I forgot exactly a Deli land, but you've also got Queen Elizabeth land. So It was named after Sponsors. You've got Queen Modland named after Norwegian Queen. So Sponsors, Queens, Mothers, Nannies, Children, Daughters. But then what became interesting to me was when they were named after living, breathing, incredible women like Edna Plumstead, who was a paleobotanist from South Africa, who actually, 1952, through her observations of fossils, started to put together that Godwana land was one land. And so some of the place names, particularly in the transantarctic mountains, are named after... Some of them are still living, and the place names are still being made for Bulgarian, for South American, for American, for British, et cetera, Japanese researchers and place names.

[00:20:18.030] - Carol Devine

And then some of them are named after women because of the features. And then some of them on my map, like the Office Girls, are just a play at the sexism. Thank you to the Office Girls who made it possible for us men to Go and study for humanity. It's meant to be playful, but it's also been such an incredible experience to have people from around the world. I go to different Antarctica Scientific Conference meetings and do some crowd mapping. People are really proud and excited Some of the women in the room I didn't know are on the map for their science. That's been cool. I've run into women in the most unsuspected places and realized, Oh, I have to map you. You're incredible.

[00:20:57.600] - Clark

Wow. I'll just say, too, I imagine listeners might be really interested to see this map themselves. It's linked in the show notes. But basically, to summarize, you've taken a blank map of Antarctica and you've hined all the places on the continent that were named after women.

[00:21:09.920] - Carol Devine

Yes, that's accurate. Just to add that there's a very formal process of place naming, and There's a few processes, like other geographic place names. But I want to go a bit beyond the formality. I'll also include names that have been renamed. Eva Peron Bay was renamed Mobile Oil Bay. I'm like, Yeah, I don't want to name it after the oil company. I want to keep that name. I've gone through different online searchable, but there's no women. You have to search in an unusual way. I've done both formal searches on databases of Antarctica place names, and then I've crowd-sourced. I've asked people to send me, and I've used ribbons. We're at an Antarctica conference in Malaysia, of all places. People went up and mapped. It was really fun.

[00:21:52.840] - Clark

Okay. Then I think I got the answer to this question, but I was going to ask you if there were any general statements we could make about the women. For example, are they mostly scientists? Did they all make some contribution or discovery? But you mentioned that they could be sponsors, they could be scientists, but they could also be children, nannies, wives, just a mixed bag. Is that the best way to think of it?

[00:22:15.370] - Carol Devine

Yeah. I think the map reflects history. It reflects geopolitics. It reflects equity and struggles for equality. It reflects the geopolitics of Antarctica. It's really meant to be international. Anything related to a place name, even formal or informal, that has to do with women and women's contributions. Of course, our understanding of gender is much better understood now that it's not so binary. But I think that it really is a tribute to the women who fought to get there and the women who were left behind.

[00:22:55.140] - Clark

Have you been to any of the places that you pinned on the map?

[00:22:57.920] - Carol Devine

Yes, I've been into some general areas named after women, like Bayes. But I've only been on the peninsula and close to the main continent. But I was thinking earlier about the first American woman to overwinter in Antarctica was a writer. She went on a private expedition, Edith Roni. But there's a whole Roni land that's an important ice shelf. And so it's also the story of climate change and human-driven catastrophic climate change. But I'd like to go to some of the place names. I haven't been to Antarctica, where there's so many female place names, or the transantarctic Mountains, where I find it's particularly contemporary women. So maybe that was explored later. It's also the story of what was explored first has a lot of older colonial names. What was explored in the center is more recent.

[00:23:46.440] - Clark

Did taking on this project make you ponder the significance of naming a place after a person? Do you have any reflections about that?

[00:23:55.140] - Carol Devine

Yeah, I love that question. I think we've all seen, like recently, just yesterday, I got a message that my cousin's and aunt named a bench on a golf course after my uncle like a tribute. I think it's a very human... It's practical, too. We have to name streets. We have to name buildings. Sometimes there's financial connection. That's my legacy, name it after me. Sometimes it's in honor of. Place names are really, really important, but they're also very political, right? I remember being in the Soviet the Union at the time where the maps consciously were made incorrectly and had wrong names, apparently. But I think it's really like what you were saying. It's really a tribute. There's all the names on that one map. Sometimes I'd like to finish the digital map with the over 400, 500 place names that I've collected and others have shared with me. But I think that it's so important to remember and honor and learn and laugh, but also I think about who's not on the map.

[00:25:01.830] - Clark

Sure. As we've been talking throughout this conversation, I was thinking about people who are or are not on the map, contributions that have or haven't been recognized. I've spoken with a couple of scientists, for example, making this podcast, and I asked the question at the beginning, Have you been to Antarctica? Some tell me, No, my work is in data analysis. I have colleagues that send me the data that they've collected, but they still are making large contributions. I just want to give out a shout out to anyone who's making contributions to this continent who might not have the opportunity to have their name pinned to any specific place, location on the continent. But maybe their names do show up on all sorts of publications and research and different projects.

[00:25:40.010] - Carol Devine

A hundred %. I really agree with you. Maria Klenova, who was on the map, she never touched Antarctica, but she helped map the first Soviet Antarctica Atlas. But I really hear you about the unseen but incredibly valuable women and men who are doing really contributing to our understanding of Antarctica, and thus the world, and that's ourselves who aren't on the map. But I would say, too, that there is possibility and there will be place names of people who contributed who aren't there. But I agree with your point overall.

[00:26:13.740] - Clark

I'm wondering, who are You are a female, Antartic heroes, and where do they fall on the map?

[00:26:18.700] - Carol Devine

A couple of my heroes are on the map, like Edna Plumstead, who I mentioned, who did such incredibly important understanding of how our world and continents came together in a part. Just our understanding standing. There's so many other. Christie Brown was a 28-year-old Marine biologist, British, with the British Antartic Survey, who drowned while going to check some research about ice shelves. She was drowned by a leopard seal. And after 30 years of the Brits diving in Antarctica to do their research. No one had been injured, but that's one of the sadder memorials. But she's my hero. What would she have done? She was only 28, but died in... It happens, but very tragic. And two women I would like to see on the map, and since you asking me to do this podcast, I was like, Actually, can I ask? Can I recommend? How do I lobby? I do advocacy work. So two women I would love to see on the map are women I had the fortune to go to Antarctica with. A couple, well, before COVID is Dr. M. Jackson and Dr. Erin Pettit. They're both glaciologists, and they're both doing incredibly important work in their own right, and I believe should have place names.

[00:27:25.350] - Carol Devine

But also, and I'm not going to pronounce her name right, but Stephanie Criziwanos is an incredible writer and thinker, and she worked as a logistician for seven years. So not a really celebrated scientist, but she is an incredible writer and thinker and is celebrated and has some books and articles about Antarctica. But people who contribute also to the humanities, like Erin was doing really important research or is doing really important research on the glacier melt on the Thwaites glacier, so we can understand sea level rise. And Erin wrote a book, I mean, and M wrote a book called The Secret Life of Glaciers and really has been looking at glaciers from a social science, but also deeply important environmental nature, climate, beingness of glaciers. I think they should have place names. But then also Stephanie, who I mentioned, who's looking at the humanities and really is looking at the colonial history, but in a very refreshed and important new way as a woman of color.

[00:28:23.260] - Clark

Yeah, it seems like this map is living and breathing because it seems like there will still be lots of discoveries and stories that are made both scientifically and geographically. I'm hoping that this map will continue to evolve and more names just get added to it. We are going to round out to the last couple of questions, and I want to ask you if you have any final comments about either of the projects that we've talked about today or your research and work in Antarctica in general?

[00:28:47.360] - Carol Devine

Yeah. I think what connects the projects and what drives me and what I've had such a great and continuing with such a great fortune to work with the so-called Antarctica community, the polar community, but it's also a community who cares about collaboration and interdisciplinarity and not living with the status quo, changing the status quo for the better. The projects all talk about celebrating science and art and each other and the international nature of this work, but also the inequities that are inherent, whether it's migrants or people who are so affected by pollution and climate change and don't have access to medicines or early warning for extreme weather events. And Antarctica is so incredibly important, as is the Arctic, as is the Amazon rainforest, as are all rivers. I think that just Antarctica, for me, what I love about it and what I recognize, I have such a privilege to have gone there, and I probably don't need to go again, is that it's an example of humans getting together and saying we could really spend so much money to, and I think it's going to probably happen, and we have to really fight against it, really get all the minerals out of this continent.

[00:30:02.800] - Carol Devine

Sure, I can't disagree that we need items to live with and medicines come from oceans and the cars we drive, the computers that we're speaking on. But I don't know, the project's linked to me a love of Antarctica, but it's really about equity, joy, collaboration, and what a group of humans can do together and learn and make mistakes. But I really feel so privileged I got to go to Antarctica to this other world, which is really so important for all of us.

[00:30:28.320] - Clark

I could not have thought of a better note to end on. The last question I have for you is, where can people find you and follow your work?

[00:30:34.790] - Carol Devine

Yeah. So Instagram at Antartic Cook and Clean. Antartic without an A, not Antarctica. So Instagram, Antartic Cook and Clean. X, which I'm feeling a bit mixed about. Twitter, I'll call it. It's @abccantartica. But you can also find me on caroldevine. Org, caroldevine. Org. Wendy and our book, Ask Bookstores for it because it was a very special print run, which it's now only available digitally. We love books, so the Antartic Book in cooking and cleaning, look out for it and ask your Bookstore or Harper Collins for it.

[00:31:14.350] - Clark

Okay, perfect. Links to all of those will be included in the episode description, as well as to the projects that we talked about today. This is the part where I want to say thank you so much for coming on the show today. Thank you for sharing your work with us and also for the really important activism and research you've done in this space.

[00:31:28.770] - Carol Devine

Thank you so much, Clark. I can't wait to hear some other of the podcast. Bye now.

[00:31:45.550] - Clark

All right. Another final thank you to Carol Devine, and a big, big thank you to every guest that we've had on the show in season 2. Also, a major thank you to you, listeners, for sticking with us. This has been the season finale of South Pole, and we will see you right back here very shortly with season 3. So stay tuned and stay subscribed. You've been listening to South Pole. You can find more information about this week's guests and links to their work in the episode description. Cover art for the show was done by Laurel Wong, and the music you're listening to was done by Nela Ruiz. I am your host, Clark Marchese, and this episode was produced and engineered by me. If you found it interesting, send it to someone you South Pole is part of a larger network of sciencey podcasts called Pineforest Media. We've got one on plastic, one on drinking water, and a couple of new ones coming out soon. You can find more information about us in the episode description as well or on our website at pineforestpods. We are also on Instagram and TikTok at pineforestmedia. If you love the show and want to support science and communication like this, a five-star rating across platforms and a review on Apple Podcasts is one of the best things you can do to help this science reach more people and for the entire network to grow.

[00:32:58.490] - Clark

All right, thank you to all of you who have made far, and we'll talk soon.